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Library Socialist

  • Again, you ate claiming that "a rational actor" is apparently only one that seeks to be edit themselves in the short term at the expense of both society and that of their own long term value. So where is your basis for making this claim of supposed "human nature"?

    As for deflation - as the amount of time spent to produce an equal amount of goods decreases, the amount of goods an hour of labor can purchase increases. This is an issue if people hoard vouchers, as the future value is greater than the present, and so there's incentive not to consume current goods, and artificially decrease demand. But vouchers do not allow transfer or hoarding, unlike money.

  • Buddy, I'm not deriding anything.

    I gave you answers, and you're making wild suppositions about how human nature supposedly is - and then demanding I answer your own, unsupported, conclusions as somehow axiomatic.

    I've pointed out multiple times, gently, that this isn't the case, using real world and your own examples. Your response has been to then continue with your own assumptions. Yes, you have your answers - you decided you did from the beginning, and it's obvious you're not actually asking questions, you're convinced your own argument (which again, doesn't bear relation to reality) is wonderful and want that to be taken as gospel.

    Nobody is butthurt here, it's simply pointless to continue to repeat things to you at this point.

    So we'll go through this one last time, then you can continue on your little game by yourself. I really do have better things to do. Because I've worked on these systems, I gave you time already, which appears to have been a mistake.

    any serious responses to inflationary concerns

    Inflation isn't a concern in time value. As technology and capital increase productive capacity, the actual effect is deflationary - however, since labor vouchers don't allow hoarding, this is also not a real concern.

    risk as a necessary consideration

    Necessary for what? You seem to be supposing that there are risky professions which nobody will do except for money, and also cannot be done without.

    OK, so name one?

    Here is a list of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America - https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/workers-comp/most-dangerous-jobs-america/

    Now notice something - only one, pilot, has a salary that is even 6 figures.

    Do you see the problem with your argument? You're claiming nobody will do jobs, that they are currently doing, without incentive that they currently don't get.

    or the accountability question

    Again, you have claimed there would be, in your own words, widespread "oligarchic" fraud. When asked how that would be possible without a small number of owners who would profit from said fraud, you don't bother to answer. Because it shows the question is a meaningless one. I might as well ask how you intend to deal with the unicorn crisis under capitalism.

  • wat

    Jump
  • Dark Tower did the same bit as well

  • Yeah, dude, thanks for the wall of text deciding what my position is (erroneously) for me.

    You asked a question, I answered it. You want to make up a straw man to yell at, you can do it without me.

  • Yeah, meanwhile calling people chief isn't rude?

    Fuck off.

  • The US has literally millions of people in their wars since 1989.

  • I contend that presupposing socialism and collective ownership doesn't actually change human nature

    You're defining human nature, but not providing data on that.

    Yes, some humans will try to game the system. Humans also will try to aid other humans, and do things because they find them interesting. Homo economicus is a myth, and one that is disproven daily.

    would a democratically-elected government turn to fascism or imperialism?

    Well, for one thing, there has NEVER been a government of "democracy" that includes economic matters. If you're asking why a bourgeois government would turn to those, it's because it's in the interest of capital. Fascism is in fact the immune system of capitalism.

    Again, you're trying to have it both ways here it seems - to say that the behavior of humans under the coercion of capitalism is proof that coercion is needed, but also that socialism must not have coercion.

    teachers leave due to low pay

    Right, and if you look at the rates that teachers receive, compared to global production as a whole, they're tiny. And yet you still see people become teachers, over and over. It's obviously not in their self-interest to do so, even for a short while.

    You're proving the point. Now imagine that labor is actually given the value it creates, just in time spent. The amount of production that is taken by those who produce nothing but own is huge. If that was evenly distributed, the problem would be too many possible teachers, not too few, as the low pay would no longer be an issue. An hour of teaching would buy so much.

    because the risks of death and serious injury working on a farm or construction site far outweigh the risk to mental health

    You're ignoring personal preference - DIY existing alone shows that people want to take some of these risks.

    But sure, let's say that people no longer want to work on ice fishing boats anymore. There's a couple ways to address this - either we stop eating crab (maybe not the worst idea ecologically), or we build robots to do it for us.

  • That "orc" culture shit is idiotic and bigoted

  • Given the huge civil war after, yeah, it did.

  • Do you mean Trump in Iran, or Bush in Iraq?

  • Yup, Germany in WWII wasn't an exception

  • You might want to examine a graph of George W Bush's approval ratings by year sometime

  • Polls do seem to say so, but I'm sure you know better

  • Yes, taking training time as labor eliminates the deficit problem.

    For "oligarchy" - you're supposing here there's a small number of owners who would benefit from collusion. If you're presupposing socialism, and this common ownership, that's not the case. Why, and how, would a democraticly controlled workplace engage in widespread time fraud?

  • "See, China did a bad thing in 1989, while listed here are multiple worse things the US did this year alone. These are equal"

  • Your unspoken premise here is people become doctors for the money

  • No, Rand pretended there wasn't coercion in capitalism. There is. People work jobs they don't want.

    The problem is they work then too much, because the surplus goes to capitalists.

  • That's confusing division of labor with pricing

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