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2 yr. ago

  • Most of Canada's oil is heavy oil that doesn't compete well with the lighter oil on international markets due to difficulty in transportation and refining. It is shipped to the US by train, and refined in the US which has costs associated with it. I couldn't find a source saying that Canada would be 20% better off shipping to our other export targets like the EU. I'm willing to be taught a lesson by such sources.

    I'm guessing you're arguing that trade with the US makes drugs expensive. Canada protects drug prices as part of our single-payer system. We negotiate prices nationally and thus pay close to what other OECD nations pay. Re: patents - I could very well be missing something, but wouldn't such patents exist regardless of trade agreements? If we could buy generic analogs of patented drugs then surely we can regardless of patents. If we can't get generic analogs then how does cancelling trade agreements make patented drugs cheaper? If you are just saying that US big pharma sucks then I totally agree, but I don't see how ending our agreements fixes that.

    Americanization of media and culture isn't just a Canadian problem that stems from our close relationship to the US. Things like radicalization and swings towards autocracy are happening in democracies (and other systems) all around the world regardless of level of direct US influence. I don't think it's fair at all to say that if we didn't associate with the US that our society would be free from US-style problems.

    I can see that NAFTA has caused instances of ignoring environmental damage. I will say that as far as I can tell by looking it up, the Lone Pine Resources v. Canada case was decided against the corporation, in which case the destruction you mention was not allowed. "On November 21, 2022, the NAFTA tribunal found that revocation of mining rights around the St. Lawrence river did not amount to an expropriation, considering that Claimant retained other mining rights. Tribunal majority also dismisses MST claim." Unless I'm reading that wrong (definitely a possibility) in that case NAFTA officials actually stopped environmental damage. Plus let's face it, provinces like Alberta and Ontario do not need NAFTA pressure at all to make large-scale environmentally harmful choices. I'm not convinced Canada would have refused to exploit resources if free trade wasn't a thing.

    As far as the relationship being shit, there's a lot of experts who say it's beneficial. If nothing else it has created TONS of jobs for Canadians and been a bedrock of our economy across many sectors.

  • I hear you. It's absolutely insane how fast the Republicans morphed into what I now know are called vatniks. Including, unbelievably, support for Putin. I think conditions are different in the USA (for instance a lot of traditional and online media being very critical of Trump's moves) than Russia, but it remains to be seen how all this plays out. I fear autocracy is on the rise in many countries and definitely in the US.

    As far as morality go, the entire world has problems demanding ethical treatment for people far away. Products of all kinds are made in terrible conditions, and even I'm not innocent as I own things like mobile phones. I admittedly don't know a ton about ethical guards, but I do know that even in the EU you still have companies like Nestle doing business in spite of clear exploitation. I think that is very much a humanity problem as opposed to just a US problem, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't call it out in North America or that you're wrong.

  • I can definitely see what you're saying, and you seem to be hoping for the best and planning for the worst. Which is reasonable. I don't disagree with you but I'd add to the conversation:

    • There is meaningful resistance even now, weeks into the Trump's idiocy. Just today in the headlines on Lemmy we have judges blocking his orders, 20 states suing him for overreach, and citizens protesting. I think this resistance is bound to increase (in terms of size and urgency) as people start to see their family suffering/dying because of things like the social security payment collapse some experts are predicting.
    • American businesses are pushing back to get tariffs delayed or stopped completely and that pressure is only going to increase as economic consequences roll in. Trump can lie all he wants about how great things will be but big money isn't about to sit around while they become less big money.
    • Regardless of whether they exist as the USA or something else, there's about 345 million people south of our border in the US. Many of whom are economically tied to us and us to them. I'm not sure it's realistic to aim for a zero relationship situation or even a minimal one. It's a huge market, intertwined with ours, very close to our population centres and we're going to fall into either a beneficial or hostile relationship with a nation 10x the size of ours. I think we need to strive hard at a good relationship while simultaneously demanding respect.
  • That the quote is from Kissinger is not my only criticism, just the one you have an answer for. So you'll try to steer the conversation to that with, again, zero response to the sovereignty or economic realities I've brought up. If you want to continue arguing then post substance, not one-line zingers from one of the most evil men of the last 100 years.

  • If you're relying on Henry Kissinger for advice I have no common ground to advance the conversation with. Also, that quote addresses none of the points I've made about either sovereignty or economics, and isn't the dunk you appear to think it is.

    Edit: Just another thought that occurred to me while thinking about how that quote is wrong - it's not even going to be fatal to have been America's friend. Canada is going to survive Trump's aggression, and will also survive the US relationship regardless of how things play out. Moreover, for decades the US-Canada alliance built up both countries immensely. I support Canada building stronger ties to more countries than just the US, but at this point in history far more good has come out of being America's friend than harm has been done by Trump.

  • You are right that Trump/Musk are destroying America. You are wrong that they are unopposed because they certainly are in Canada, in many other parts of the world, and yes, inside the US. Re: the stakes - the USA is not taking over Canada, period. They are causing a lot of economic harm, but telling Americans they're trash people that need to fuck off en masse does absolutely nothing to repair that damage. No matter what Trump tries to tell you and everyone else, this trade war is not popular among almost anyone. So what we do is keep on telling Trump to go fuck himself along with all those people, just as our nation is doing now.

    If Americans do disappear and stop having a relationship with Canada as you suggest a HUGE number of Canadians are going to suffer. The only way to prevent that is to fight back as much as necessary and then work to restore the engine that keeps all those Canadians and Americans afloat. Basically as Canadians we need to stay the course, punish the US for it's betrayal, strengthen ties elsewhere, but then also be open to reconciliation. Being toxic and vengeful is not going to help citizens of either country.

  • I hope your claimed real-world efforts are more meaningful than what I'm seeing from you in this post, because blanket insults posted online do not count. I get that you're disgusted and angry, but you are not being constructive and there are better ways to tell people you are angry. If you are sick of being constructive and/or acknowledging the benefits of Canada-USA friendship I understand, but you should probably take a break from news/social media.

    I am another Canadian btw.

  • As another Canadian: I hate the US government, oligarchs, the loss of separation between church and state, and fascists. The US government has had terrible and negligent policies for much longer than the last 2 months. It's just now there's not even attempts to mask it and not nearly enough official resistance to it. America is being gutted beyond recognition as the same entity it was. I can empathize with what is, frankly, a rant from in4apenny even as I downvoted their post.

    However I have many American friends I do NOT hate, and who do not hate me or covet my country. I do NOT agree with the "fuck everyone, you're all a blight" position. I could write many arguments why, but the most important one is for many decades our countries have been stronger for being allies. If I want Canada to be the greatest nation it can be I have to recognize the contribution of a friendly USA that existed basically uninterrupted until two months ago. I 100% support the "elbows up, fight back hard" movement that is sweeping my nation, but with an eye for historical context of shared success. I hope for a return to that friendship when/if you folks manage to restore sanity. But that restoration is either going to be very messy or not happen at all, so we'll see if the elbows ever get to come down again.

  • As a Canadian: thank you Europe for standing strong with Canada against tyrants, whether they rule from the Kremlin or the White House. Together we will make it to the other side of this insanity. Slava Ukraini.

  • Absolutely. Again, Israel has never broken step with systemic oppression of Palestinians. I'm not a Rabin fan, but those years are still the closest instance I know of anyone considering peace. Even the stance you quote with all it's flaws and prejudices was enough to get him killed.

  • Traitors one and all and history will remember them as such. I'm Canadian and as angry as I am about the huge mess happening between my country and the USA, I'm even angrier about Ukraine. At least Canadians aren't being killed or having tens of thousands of our children stolen away. I cannot understand the eagerness with which MAGA has embraced Putin. Looking at history until now, I never thought siding with a dictatorial warmongering Russia would be a core Republican value.

  • MAGA folks never care about cruelty until it affects them, then they cry for mercy and compassion. To them the damaging human consequences are either justice, religious imperative, or necessary cost - until they are the ones paying. Now they reap the fruits of their indifference or often full-on support of the suffering of others. I still feel bad for the innocent, like children or those who have opposed this malevolent chaos from the beginning.

  • As much as I'd like to see this BS punished, I can sympathize with workers who return to their job. I'm sure a lot of the folks affected would like to respond meaningfully to their unlawful termination but in real life the bills need to be paid.

  • Not rethinking because it's unethical to begin with and poorly executed on top of that. Rethinking because punishing their scapegoats is proving to be expensive and inconvenient.

  • The US wouldn’t stop military aid to Israel while the IDF destroyed hospitals and killed children and journalists among many other war crimes. They will freeze aid to Ukraine as it defends itself in a war of conquest. Evidence suggests the USA would rather align with criminals like Putin and Netanyahu than war victims.

  • The Onion @midwest.social

    Americans choose most expensive way possible to discover what goods made in Canada

    thebeaverton.com /2025/02/americans-choose-most-expensive-way-possible-to-discover-what-goods-made-in-canada/
  • I would never finish a game 8 times longer than Witcher 3+exansions. I started once, got burned out and had to restart a year later to get to the end. Enjoyed it a lot but yeah. I don't need like 1600 hours of anything.

  • Deleted

    rarted

    Jump
  • I never thought you were being inflammatory or attacking me, but thank you for an apology/clarification even if it wasn't necessary. I thought your response provided valuable perspective, and reminded us all that people are a diverse group that defies blanket categorization. I asked for your feedback because I legitimately didn't know how to fold that into my post, which as I said was the truth of what I experienced. I also wanted to help divorce criticism of people like Elon Musk from "accusations" of mental disability, which I don't feel should be an accusation or "gotcha".

    After over 25 years of work of varying intensity with psychiatrists, I'm legally permanently disabled because of mental illness and I have lived on permanent disability for several years. I'm lucky in that I'm physically and mentally capable, so most people won't even know until they are close enough to me to start learning about my lifestyle and day-to-day experience. Even so I've experienced a fair bit of both well-meaning and malicious misunderstanding. Those misunderstandings are of course worse and more consistent for people with developmental and intellectual disabilities, and I don't want to be part of that. That's why I'm taking our conversation seriously.

    I'm not going to delete my post because I stand beside what I said, but I did include the following edit: "Edit: Following discussion below, I think it would be right and humanizing to add a reminder to myself and others. Although my time with that particular group was positive, the mentally disabled are people like any of us and each will be different in terms of friendliness, happiness, and social capability."

    I don't think that short addition will interrupt the flow or message of my post, and will address some of the context you've provided.

  • The Onion @midwest.social

    Child dying from measles just glad he isn't autistic - The Beaverton

    www.thebeaverton.com /2015/02/child-dying-from-measles-just-glad-he-isn-t-autistic/
  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    Captain, Starfleet Command has transmitted the results of their performance review.

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    The Borg assimilated much of the Internet when they captured other human technologies and culture.

  • grimdank @lemmy.world

    Top Dakka

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    Here's what to do when the bridge explodes in electrical fires. But you don't have to take my word for it.

  • RPGMemes @ttrpg.network

    It's going to be one of -those- sessions, isn't it?

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    Aww, what have you done Clarkson? The "Check Warp Core" light is blinking like mad!

  • World News @lemmy.world

    Israel says it will stop work of Spanish consulate for Palestinians

    www.lemonde.fr /en/international/article/2024/05/24/israel-says-it-will-stop-work-of-spanish-consulate-for-palestinians_6672559_4.html
  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    It's hard getting your 10k steps a day on a starship.

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    Misusing Memorable Quotes Pt. 8 - The Leftovers (Compilation Post)

  • World News @lemmy.world

    Israel Responds to Move to Recognize Palestinian State by Withholding Funds

    www.nytimes.com /2024/05/22/world/middleeast/israel-reacts-palestinian-finance.html
  • Antique Memes Roadshow @lemmy.world

    I wonder if the sport has evolved in the 14 years since I saved this.

  • RPGMemes @ttrpg.network

    Necromancer family reunions must get awkward.

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    We need a serious discussion about power inequality on the Enterprise.

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    Or maybe he was a whistleblower

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    Misusing Memorable Quotes Pt. 3

  • Antique Memes Roadshow @lemmy.world

    A sing along I checked wasn't a recent repost, but if it was it would be the right song for it.

  • RPGMemes @ttrpg.network

    The special kind of fun that is a full minute or two spent rolling legendary damage.

  • News @lemmy.world

    GOP introduces bill that would send anyone convicted of unlawful activity on a campus since Oct. 7th, 2023 to Gaza.

    www.thedailybeast.com /bloodthirsty-republican-andy-ogles-introduces-absurd-bill-to-send-arrested-students-to-gaza